Rev 4, In Heaven, a prelude to judgment starting

Rev 4: 1-11 (ESV) After this I looked, and behold, a door standing open in heaven! And the first voice, which I had heard speaking to me like a trumpet, said, "Come up here, and I will show you what must take place after this."  2 At once I was in the Spirit, and behold, a throne stood in heaven, with one seated on the throne. 3 And he who sat there had the appearance of jasper and carnelian, and around the throne was a rainbow that had the appearance of an emerald. 4 Around the throne were twenty-four thrones, and seated on the thrones were twenty-four elders, clothed in white garments, with golden crowns on their heads. 5 From the throne came flashes of lightning, and rumblings and peals of thunder, and before the throne were burning seven torches of fire, which are the seven spirits of God, 6 and before the throne there was as it were a sea of glass, like crystal.

And around the throne, on each side of the throne, are four living creatures, full of eyes in front and behind: 7  the first living creature like a lion, the second living creature like an ox, the third living creature with the face of a man, and the fourth living creature like an eagle in flight. 8 And the four living creatures, each of them with six wings, are full of eyes all around and within, and day and night they never cease to say,

"Holy, holy, holy, is the Lord God Almighty,
who was and is and is to come!"

9 And whenever the living creatures give glory and honor and thanks to him who is seated on the throne, who lives forever and ever, 10 the twenty-four elders fall down before him who is seated on the throne and worship him who lives forever and ever. They cast their crowns before the throne, saying,

11  "Worthy are you, our Lord and God,
to receive glory and honor and power,
for you created all things,
and by your will they existed and were created."


• Starting with verse 1, what are some of the implications?
• Something comes after the letters to the churches. Implication is that the churches do, in fact, represent ages in church history
• Invitation to come up to heaven
• The previous discussion took place on Patmos
• Now the discussion takes place in heaven
• The phrase, after this or meta tauta, is a chronological depiction
• What follows next, follows the time of the churches
• There is a clear sense in the scripture that chapters 2-3 take place before chapter 4 and following
• We are taken into the very throne room of God. John is not there but in the Spirit (as he says). What do we observed in the throne room?
1. A throne
• Flashes of lightning
• Rumblings and peals of thunder
2. A person whom John does not immediately identify or recognize
• Jasper apparently refers to a diamond, 21:11. (Also, Charles; Beasley-Murray; Mounce)
• Rev 21:11 …  (ESV) having the glory of God, its radiance like a most rare jewel, like a jasper, clear as crystal.
• Carnelian (NIV) or sardis is a fiery red gem
• Also a rainbow (all colors encircle the throne)
3. Twenty-four elders
• Dressed in white -- white clothes represent salvation
• Crowns of gold -- grk stephanous, suggesting overcomers
• The fact that they have their crowns means that this occurs after the judgment seat of Christ and before the marriage feast (Fruchtenbaum -- note: understand judgment but not the marriage feast comment)
• Elders would imply humans and not celestial beings
4. Also, Twenty-four thrones
• Not sure on the identity of the 24
• Could be 24 church saints
• Could be 12 representing Old Covenant (OT Saints) and 12 representing the New Covenant (Church)
• Could be the 12 Apostles and 12 unidentified others
5. Seven lamps, also called the seven spirits of God
• One thought is that seven represents completeness
• Isa 11:2 identifies seven aspects of God's Spirit
• Isa 11:2 (NASB) The Spirit of the Lord will rest on Him, // The spirit of wisdom and understanding, // The spirit of counsel and strength, // The spirit of knowledge and the fear of the Lord.
6. Sea of glass, clear as crystal
• One thought is that it represents a separation of God and his Holiness from his creation
• Another thought is that it just portrays the immensity of God's throne room where no walls are seen, only an endless sea
• Another is that it reflects God's glory and represents all his children
7. Four living creatures with six wings and eyes all around (Ezekiel and Revelation passage agree on number of wings and faces, but a slighter different viewpoint (Rev) seems to suggest faces were singular to a being), but might just be John's position)
• One like a lion -- wild beasts / Whatever is strongest
• One like an ox -- domesticated animals / Whatever is noblest (Service or servanthood)
• One with a face like a man -- human beings / Whatever is wisest
• One like a flying eagle -- flying creatures / Whatever is swiftest
8. Pattern
• Four living creatures repeating a statement
• Emphasizing God's holiness
• Interesting that the two most important attributes of God are his holiness and his eternity (do not mention his love)
• Twenty-four elders laying down their crowns and honoring God
• [PICTURE] Victorious athletes would offer their crown to their deity upon returning home
• Earn crowns by service in the kingdom (APPLICATION: what will we have to offer to God?)
• Crowns are cast before God. It is all that they have as result of the believer's judgment to show their thankfulness for their salvation
• Elders emphasize 3 things
• God's sovereignty
• God as creator (men exist because God gave them life, not because they deserve life)
• Possibly God's mercy (since by God's will we exist)
• APPLICATION: We will be judged and rewarded after the rapture. Why are rewards important?
• Rewards are indication of thankfulness, a recognition of what was paid for in our salvation
• Our rewards honor God. We can't work for our salvation, but we can work out our salvation such that God is pleased with our life (and honored because we recognize how worth he is and how unworthy we are)

Introduction to Tribulation (Rev 4-18)

• Review question on 1 Thess 5: 1-11. Go back to 1 Thess 4:13-18. Chapter 4 discusses the how (order of events). Chapter 5 discusses when. Rapture is discussed because it is imminent. Day of the Lord does in fact refer to the tribulation and it does follow the rapture. So this all makes sense when understood in context
• Names for the Tribulation
• Isa 28:21 (ESV) For the Lord will rise up as on Mount Perazim; //  as in the Valley of Gibeon he will be roused; // to do his deed—strange is his deed! // and to work his work—alien is his work!
• Jer 30:7 (ESV) Alas! That day is so great //  there is none like it; // it is a time of distress for Jacob; // yet he shall be saved out of it.
• Zeph 1:14-18 (NIV) "The great day of the Lord is near — // near and coming quickly. // Listen! The cry on the day of the Lord will be bitter, // the shouting of the warrior there.  // 15 That day will be a day of wrath, // a day of distress and anguish, // a day of trouble and ruin, // a day of darkness and gloom, // a day of clouds and blackness,  // 16 a day of trumpet and battle cry // against the fortified cities // and against the corner towers.  // 17 I will bring distress on the people // and they will walk like blind men, // because they have sinned against the Lord. // Their blood will be poured out like dust // and their entrails like filth.  // 18 Neither their silver nor their gold // will be able to save them // on the day of the Lord's wrath. // In the fire of his jealousy // the whole world will be consumed, // for he will make a sudden end // of all who live in the earth."
• Joel 2:1-2 (NIV) Blow the trumpet in Zion; // sound the alarm on my holy hill. // Let all who live in the land tremble, // for the day of the Lord is coming. // It is close at hand — //   2 a day of darkness and gloom, // a day of clouds and blackness. // Like dawn spreading across the mountains // a large and mighty army comes, // such as never was of old // nor ever will be in ages to come.
• Rev 6:16-17 (NIV) They called to the mountains and the rocks, "Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! 17 For the great day of their wrath has come, and who can stand?"
• Purpose of the Tribulation
1. Judgment on sin and sinners (rebellion against God)
• See previous verse, Zeph 1:17
• Isa 13:9 (NIV) See, the day of the Lord is coming // — a cruel day, with wrath and fierce anger — // to make the land desolate // and destroy the sinners within it.
• Isa 24:19-20 (NIV) The earth is broken up, // the earth is split asunder, // the earth is thoroughly shaken.  // 20 The earth reels like a drunkard, // it sways like a hut in the wind; // so heavy upon it is the guilt of its rebellion // that it falls — never to rise again. 
2. Final worldwide revival.  The first half of the tribulation sees Jews of every tongue around the world coming to Christ and sharing the gospel with the rest of the world.  The Jewish people finally fulfill the purpose for which God chose them

• Rev 7:1-4, 9-10, 13-14 (NIV) After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds of the earth to prevent any wind from blowing on the land or on the sea or on any tree. 2 Then I saw another angel coming up from the east, having the seal of the living God. He called out in a loud voice to the four angels who had been given power to harm the land and the sea: 3 "Do not harm the land or the sea or the trees until we put a seal on the foreheads of the servants of our God." 4 Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel.

  … 9 After this I looked and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and in front of the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands. 10 And they cried out in a loud voice: // "Salvation belongs to our God, // who sits on the throne,  // and to the Lamb."

  … 13 Then one of the elders asked me, "These in white robes — who are they, and where did they come from?" // 14 I answered, "Sir, you know." // And he said, "These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

• Jesus' teaching on the Mount of Olives, in conjunction with the above passage suggests that the preaching of the gospel to all the world is fulfilled during the tribulation, as opposed to preceding the tribulation.  I hesitantly say this as all Christian should be actively living as a witness both in word (sharing the gospel) and deed (living differently than the world)
• Matt 24:14 (NIV) And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.
3. It is directed against Israel to break the power of the Holy People.  This was discussed earlier in events that lead to the tribulation, the second event was a re-gathering of unbelief for the purpose of judgment.
• Ezek 22:17-22 (NIV) Then the word of the Lord came to me: 18 "Son of man, the house of Israel has become dross to me; all of them are the copper, tin, iron and lead left inside a furnace. They are but the dross of silver. 19 Therefore this is what the Sovereign Lord says: 'Because you have all become dross, I will gather you into Jerusalem. 20 As men gather silver, copper, iron, lead and tin into a furnace to melt it with a fiery blast, so will I gather you in my anger and my wrath and put you inside the city and melt you. 21 I will gather you and I will blow on you with my fiery wrath, and you will be melted inside her. 22 As silver is melted in a furnace, so you will be melted inside her, and you will know that I the Lord have poured out my wrath upon you.'"
• Dan 12:5-7 (NIV) Then I, Daniel, looked, and there before me stood two others, one on this bank of the river and one on the opposite bank. 6 One of them said to the man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, "How long will it be before these astonishing things are fulfilled?"  // 7 The man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, lifted his right hand and his left hand toward heaven, and I heard him swear by him who lives forever, saying, "It will be for a time, times and half a time. When the power of the holy people has been finally broken, all these things will be completed."
• Purpose of the seventy sevens.  Similar to the Great Tribulation, but slightly different because it includes the entire period of time and not the last seven
• Key Passage: Dan 9:24-27 (NIV) "Seventy 'sevens' are decreed for your people and your holy city to finish transgression, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy.  // 25 "Know and understand this: From the issuing of the decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until the Anointed One, the ruler, comes, there will be seven 'sevens,' and sixty-two 'sevens.' It will be rebuilt with streets and a trench, but in times of trouble. 26 After the sixty-two 'sevens,' the Anointed One will be cut off and will have nothing. The people of the ruler who will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end will come like a flood: War will continue until the end, and desolations have been decreed. 27 He will confirm a covenant with many for one 'seven.' In the middle of the 'seven' he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on a wing [of the temple] he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him."
1. Technically, it is directed toward Israel, "decreed for your people," although I think all nations share in the results
2. It is "to finish transgression."  Could also mean to end the rebellion or to bring to completion.  It does end Israel's rejection of Jesus as the Messiah
3. It is "to put an end to sin." In the new covenant, the resurrected believer will not have a sin nature any longer, and so in that sense, sin will be ended.  (Some commentators have a more specific view toward Israel)
4. It is "to atone for wickedness."  Jesus' death pays the penalty completely for all sins (Some commentators have a more specific view toward Israel). It completes God's judgment against the wicked. Jesus paid the penalty for sin but men refused to believe, so they are still guilty of at least one sin, unbelief
5. It is " to bring in everlasting righteousness."  The end of the seventy sevens brings in the millennial and the rule of the Messiah on David's throne in Jerusalem
6. It is "to seal up vision and prophecy."  Most commentators view this as an end of both oral and written prophecies.
7. It is "to anoint the most holy."  This is potentially the anointing of what would be the fourth temple, probably in the New Jerusalem during the Messianic age.  Some believe that this is the temple which Ezekiel describes
• APPLICATION: How does one apply these truths?
• We should have a seriousness about our witness, both verbally and in our lifestyle.  We may not have the joy of seeing someone directly respond to the message, but we never know how people our evaluating our lives and our message, and the impact it might have in the future
• Example:  I once shared the gospel with a high school friend.  I don't remember doing that, although he does.  At the time, he did not respond, but years later, the accumulation of Christians in his life, struggles, and searching led him to the Lord.  He credits me for being a part of the planting of the seed.  But what if I had never said anything or didn't look any different in my words of lifestyle?  We never know who is watching
• We can be encouraged because God has a plan which he is working out
• We should realize how much God hates sin.  The tribulation is where God pours out his wrath on the world.  Once, He destroyed the world with water in a flood.  The next time, he will destroy it in many different ways

Rapture (Continuation of Events Preceding Tribulation)

1 Thess 4:13-18 (ESV) But we do not want you to be uninformed, brothers, about those who are asleep, that you may not grieve as others do who have no hope. 14 For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep. 15 For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore encourage one another with these words.



• What is he referring to when he says "those who are asleep (ESV)," or "fall asleep? (NIV)"?  Dead
• Is there any corroborating information in the text?
• Grieve (why, unless dead); we who are alive (in contrast to sleeping), dead in Christ (in context, mentions the dead rising first)
• Verse 17, "caught up" is where we get the word "rapture."  The Greek work is harpazo, our word is from the Latin equivalent
• The rapture is imminent but the Great Tribulation is not -- what does that mean?
• It is a theological distinction.  There are specific events related to the Tribulation which must occur first, whereas the rapture can happen at any moment
• What do we know about the rapture from scripture?
• John 14:1-3 (ESV) Let not your hearts be troubled. Believe in God; believe also in me.  2 In my Father's house are many rooms. If it were not so, would I have told you that I go to prepare a place for you?  3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and will take you to myself, that where I am you may be also.
• No details, but some basic truth -- what do you see?
• Promise to take us to where he is going
• Marriage motif (preparing a place, but Father says when it is ready)
• Where is he going?
• to Heaven
• Suggests that we will spend some in heaven in our new bodies
• This is counter to the post-tribulation view, where Jesus meets us in the air at his second coming and takes us with him down to the earth.  Which is one reason pre-tribulation makes more sense.  We are met in the air by the Lord and taken to Heaven.  At the end of the tribulation we come back with Christ to earth
• In the 1 Thessalonian verses read earlier, we learn that the dead will not miss out, and we also get a chronological sequence, what do you see?
• The Lord descends from Heaven
• With a shout (probably a command for resurrection and translation)
• WIth the voice of the archangel (probably Michael repeats Jesus' command, much as you would see in many military units)
• With a trumpet of God (trumpet used for battle and worship; in this case it triggers the rapture itself and sets the plan in motion)
• The dead in Christ will rise first (this is limited to Church saints only; the bodies of OT saints will be resurrected at a later time)
• Then, we who are alive, shall be caught up (this is when living saints are removed from the earth)
• Meet the Lord in the air (so we return to heaven)


1 Cor 15:50-56 (ESV) I tell you this, brothers: flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51 Behold! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed. 53 For this perishable body must put on the imperishable, and this mortal body must put on immortality. 54 When the perishable puts on the imperishable, and the mortal puts on immortality, then shall come to pass the saying that is written:

 "Death is swallowed up in victory."
55  "O death, where is your victory?
O death, where is your sting?"

56 The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law.



• Verse 50 explains the necessity of the rapture:  our bodies are corrupt.  This leads to a very long discussion on the intermediate state between death and resurrection (will be included in a later input -- a quick summary: our souls rise and are with Christ in heaven at death, but our bodies are not, later they are resurrected and changed into new bodies until the rapture)
• Gen 2:17 (ESV) but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die."
• When Adam ate of from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, he corrupted the body which God had given him.  Because the body is now perishable, it cannot enter heaven.  Therefore, we need a new body
• How will the change occur?  Instantly
• When will it occur?  At the last trumpet
• Here is where people try to place the rapture in the tribulation, they interpret it to be the seventh trumpet
• At the time Paul wrote this passage, John had not written Revelation, so no one would have interpreted it in that context  (Fruchtenbaum, 2003).  More likely, it refers to the Feast of the Trumpets, where there are a series of trumpet blasts followed by one long trumpet blast.  When you look at the Jewish feasts, . . .
• There is a line of reasoning that suggests that the seven feasts of Israel have prophetic significance  (Fruchtenbaum, 2003)
• The first four occur in the Spring and are fulfilled in the FIRST coming (http://www.cgsf.org/dbeattie/calendar/?roman=33)
• Feast of Passover (Pesach, Nisan 14)
• Celebrates the Passover in Egypt
• Jesus is called the lamb of God
• Jesus probably died Friday around 3pm, which is the time of the national sacrifice of the Passover lamb at the temple
• Feast of unleavened bread (Hag Hamatzah, Nisan 15-22)
• Absence of leaven where leaven is a symbol of sin in the OT; the power of sin is the law and represents the beginning of a new covenant not based on law
• Jesus was our sinless substitute
• Feast of First Fruits (Hag Habikkurim, Nisan 16 (not always, first day of week))
• Occurs on the first day of the week after Feast of Unleavened Bread)
• Jesus' resurrection is called the firstfruit
• Feast of Weeks or Pentecost (Shavuoth, Sivan 6-7)
• Begins 7 weeks after Pesach
• Second of the three pilgrimage festivals
• Pentecost (beginning of the church and the age of grace (or New Covenant), also occurs on the same day (and therefore contrasts to) as the giving of the law on Mount Sinai, which represents the age of the Law (or Old Covenant)
• Four month gap between the feasts
• Jesus said that there are four months until the harvest
• The church age is fulfilling that now
• The second three feasts occur in the fall and will be fulfilled in the SECOND coming
• Feast of Trumpets (Rosh Hashanah) - Rapture of the church
• When "last trumpet" was written to the Corinthian church, Revelation had not been written. Yet, Paul expected his listeners to understand
• Last trumpet would refer to the last of the trumpet blasts on the feast of trumpets
• It begins a ten day period of repentance that ends with Yom Kippur
• The day of Atonement (Yom Kippur) - Tribulation
• Also the day of redemption. There is a blowing of trumpets to gather all the surviving believers
• Picture seems to have the elements of the tribulation (atonement and judgment)  and of Jesus coming (redemption)
• The Feast of Tabernacles (Succoth; booths; ingathering) - time of rejoicing after the tribulation
• Celebrates the end of the 40 years of wandering in the wilderness
• It is also the feast of ingathering of the late harvest
• The timing of the rapture
• Book of Revelation (draw a number line from 1 to 22 showing the breaks)
• The church is mentioned in chapters 1 to 3, events prior to the tribulation, and in chapters 19-22, events after the tribulation
• The church is not mentioned in chapters 6-18, the tribulation period.  Therefore the church is not in the tribulation (tribulation saints, individuals who come to Christ during the tribulation are present)
• Luke 21:34-36 (ESV) "But watch yourselves lest your hearts be weighed down with dissipation and drunkenness and cares of this life, and that day come upon you suddenly like a trap.  35 For it will come upon all who dwell on the face of the whole earth.  36 But stay awake at all times, praying that you may have strength to escape all these things that are going to take place, and to stand before the Son of Man." 
• The only way to escape is to be able to stand before the Son of Man, and the only way to stand before the Son of Man is to be a believer (Fruchtenbaum, 2003)
• 1 Thess 1:9-10 (ESV) For they themselves report concerning us the kind of reception we had among you, and how you turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God, 10 and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come.
• The Thessalonians were waiting for Jesus' return
• Jesus will return for the believer and will rescue us from the coming wrath, the tribulation
• "Delivers" is present tense. KJV ("delivered") is wrong here. Also, the wrath is still to come, but the believer is no longer under wrath
• The phrase "delivers us" means "away from." The idea being that the wrath will not touch you
• 1 Thess 5:1-11 (ESV) Now concerning the times and the seasons, brothers, you have no need to have anything written to you. 2 For you yourselves are fully aware that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. 3 While people are saying, "There is peace and security," then sudden destruction will come upon them as labor pains come upon a pregnant woman, and they will not escape. 4 But you are not in darkness, brothers, for that day to surprise you like a thief. 5 For you are all children of light, children of the day. We are not of the night or of the darkness. 6 So then let us not sleep, as others do, but let us keep awake and be sober. 7 For those who sleep, sleep at night, and those who get drunk, are drunk at night. 8 But since we belong to the day, let us be sober, having put on the breastplate of faith and love, and for a helmet the hope of salvation. 9 For God has not destined us for wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, 10  who died for us so that whether we are awake or asleep we might live with him. 11 Therefore encourage one another and build one another up, just as you are doing. 
• Salvation is physical here and not just soteriological (vs 10)
• God has not appointed us to suffer wrath. The church is not part of God's plan for wrath. The issue is whether wrath refers to the full 7 years or only the last 3 1/2 years
• Rev 3:10 (ESV) Because you have kept my word about patient endurance, I will keep you from the hour of trial that is coming on the whole world, to try those who dwell on the earth.
• There is a distinction between Church saints and Tribulation saints in Revelation
• This statement is to Church saints
• I think the reason it is not stated to the Laodicean church is that the church is made up of primarily non-believers
• Discussion on Matt 24:31 (taken from Fruchtenbaum's book "Footsteps of the Messiah," page 644. This follows a discussion of the sign of the second coming (Matt 24:29-30)

I. The Regathering of Israel – Matthew 24:31; Mark 13:27

    Since the Jewish prophets had predicted in great detail the worldwide regathering of Israel, Jesus did not spend much time with this, but only specified that it will occur after His Second Coming. The Matthew account reads:

    Matt 24:29-31 (ESV) "Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.  30 Then will appear in heaven the sign of the Son of Man, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.  31 And he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

    The Mark passage reads:

    Mark 13:24-27 (ESV) "But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light,  25 and the stars will be falling from heaven, and the powers in the heavens will be shaken.  26 And then they will see the Son of Man coming in clouds with great power and glory.  27 And then he will send out the angels and gather his elect from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of heaven.

    Following the Second Coming, the Messiah will send his angels all over the world to regather every Jew and bring them back into their Land. The background to the Matthew passage is Isaiah 27:12-13, which prophesied that the final restoration of Israel will be signaled by the sound of a great trumpet. The background to the Mark passage is Deuteronomy 30:4, which also emphasizes that the final restoration will come from two localities: earth and Heaven. Those who are gathered from the uttermost parts of the earth will be living in Israel, the one-third Remnant that survives the Tribulation. Those who are gathered from the uttermost part of heaven will be the resurrected Old Testament saints. This part of the Olivet Discourse summarizes many Old Testament prophecies (e.g., Is. 11:11-12:6; 43:5-7; Jer. 23:5-8; 31:7-14; Ezek. 11:16-21; 20:40-42; 36:22-31, et. al.), specifying that the final worldwide restoration will come only after the Second Coming, and not before.
• Isa 27:12-13 (ESV) In that day from the river Euphrates to the Brook of Egypt the Lord will thresh out the grain, and you will be gleaned one by one, O people of Israel. 13 And in that day a great trumpet will be blown, and those who were lost in the land of Assyria and those who were driven out to the land of Egypt will come and worship the Lord on the holy mountain at Jerusalem.
• Deut 30:4-5 (ESV) If your outcasts are in the uttermost parts of heaven, from there the Lord your God will gather you, and from there he will take you. 5 And the Lord your God will bring you into the land that your fathers possessed, that you may possess it.
• Discussion on post-tribulation and mid-tribulation rapture
• Argument concerning Christian are not exempt from persecution and hardship
• It is certainly true that the new covenant is different from the old covenant in the place of persecution and blessing
• John 15:20-21 (ESV) Remember the word that I said to you: 'A servant is not greater than his master.' If they persecuted me, they will also persecute you. If they kept my word, they will also keep yours.  21 But all these things they will do to you on account of my name, because they do not know him who sent me.
• 2 Tim 3:12 (ESV) Indeed, all who desire to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted,
• Tribulation is different from persecution. Tribulation is a specific time of judgment against the world
• Rom 2:5 (ESV) But because of your hard and impenitent heart you are storing up wrath for yourself on the day of wrath when God's righteous judgment will be revealed.
• Post-trib rapture
• Wedding motif is lost
• Jesus would have to meet us in the air and then take us down on the way
• No judgment for believers until the judgment for the unbelievers
• No home in heaven unless it is the New Jerusalem which comes down from heaven after the millennial kingdom
• Does not really explain the verses concerning rapture that say we are protected from wrath (The tribulation is not about persecution but judgment against the world and Israel)
• Mid-trib rapture
• Seventh trumpet in Revelation was not known until 40 years after Paul wrote his letter to Corinth
• Common understanding of the last trumpet would be the feast of trumpets
• Better fulfills the feast motif that was followed in the first coming and will be followed in the second coming
• Seventh trumpet includes all the bowl judgments and is the third woe judgment. Meaning we will have to go through 6 seal judgments and 6 trumpet judgments, including the two of the three woes